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With recent interest Outlook integration I'm thinking there are other ways to link TDL with MS Office apps.
In OneNote v2007+, paragraphs, pages, sections, and notebooks can be referenced with a URL syntax:
onenote:///\\server\Users\username\Documents\OneNote%20Notebooks\notebook_name\folder_name\section_name.one#page_name§ion-id={GUID1}&page-id={GUID2}&end
Note this is similar to:
tdl:///C:\My%20Documents\todo.tdl?284
It would be great to see TDL, OneNote, and other apps all referencing one another in perfect harmony. Why? Jump from a TDL task to a OneNote page describing current activity. Jump from there to an email requesting info to complete the task. Jump from the email to a Word doc with current details. Jump from the Word doc back to TDL to see what else needs to be done. This stuff is all related to simply getting things done. (GTD!) There's no reason anymore why all of this software can't be more integrated.
I've only recently reloaded TDL on Windows7 with Office 2010 and haven't yet setup for tdl:// links. I can tell you that onenote:// links work throughout Office apps. I just tried a onenote:// link in the TDL Comments field and the link seems to be unrecognized where the {GUID1} starts.
Separate but related, macros and add-ins can be created of Office which allow TDL to be invoked and passed data from buttons or right-click context menus. Using user-defined fields in Outlook as an example, we can also store references to tasks, and then elegantly display TDL data in a page with a contact, appointment, e-mail, task, or a journal which is where we keep track of time in Outlook. (I've read that Journals will be deprecated in a future Office release but that remains to be seen.)
So let's use our imaginations here. If you could have magic, how would you integrate ToDoList with your MS Office apps? Want a PowerPoint slide that shows current status every time you display it? Want bi-directional updates between TDL and Excel? Want to see a TDL task while you're in an email without having to open TDL and drilling in separately? Want to inter-related TDL with other documentation in OneNote, including web page captures, screen shots, meeting notes, step by step documentation, and other research?
It's all possible given the current state of all of this software - not so much just a couple years ago.
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I think TDL does currently support the 'onenote' protocol but what would also be needed would be the ability to drag'n'drop like the recent Outlook changes.
Having done all the hard work with Outlook, it might be that supporting OneNote would be relatively straightforward. I'll look into it.
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I was going to add this to my recent thread with General Comments but realized this should be its own thread...
This CodeProject medium is just wrong wrong wrong for this software for many reasons.
CodeProject is good for code samples and HowTo's. But TDL is a product that happens to be FOSS. I think the product needs to be separate from the code-focused project. The audiences are completely different and I believe you'll find a larger audience if the product is presented in a separate medium from the project. It's the difference between "I want this feature" and "I want to know how you've implemented this feature".
Dan, you've asked about marketing TDL. I get the impression that you're looking for a way to broaden the scope of the software without taking you too far away from the code. This project needs to be put its own website where other people can focus on the mechanics of things like wiki, forum, HowTo's, feature requests, marketing, new user intros, etc. I think a product with a mainstream "front door and lobby" will attract press attention so that you don't need to worry about where to go to do such marketing. This CodeProject page categorizes TDL as a "code" "project" and not an application which is as useful as it is. Change the perception and the marketing will take care of itself - not so much for other apps but certainly for this one.
Continuing the theme of how wrong Code Project is for this software... this "one size fits all" discussion thread 'as forum' thing is so wrong. I had to manually page back through over 60 threads here, back into July of last year to get some basic info on the Outlook interface. This software deserves a real site with real forum software categorized as: Newcomers, HowTos, Bugs, Feature Requests, Dan Musings, Extensions, Kudos, Examples of TDL Usage, Code Notes, Latest Release Notes, Planned Changes... These are the things that are discussed all the time and it's painful to go through this in a disorganized, largely unsearchable discussion thread. I can even see the HowTo category broken down into further sub-sections - the product is really that deep now. This CP discussion medium is not appropriate for a wider audience, and painful for the audience that is here.
What's wrong with AbstractSpoon? Nothing if it can be expanded with a forum, wiki, dedicated HowTo pages, etc. The thing is that Dan already does Sooo much with the software - asking him to maintain a website is unreasonable. I think this needs to be a community effort. I've said this before - there are many dynamics to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS). You can help with website maintenance, testing, writing docs, editing what others write, formatting what people write, answering questions in an area where you're familiar, and simply promoting the software.
To my knowledge this web page is the only place where there is any sort of "community" for this software. Given the maturity of the offering, the high quality, and large number of users, etc., this software deserves its own community platform to separate it from the developer context which is appropriate for Code Project.
As to how to do this? It would be easy to slap together a site with a CMS like Drupal or Joomla. I'll volunteer to do this if there is consensus that it should be done. I really don't like the default forum modules that come with CMS packages, so I'd link with SMF or a similar package dedicated to forums. Until cross-package login functionality is better, this would require a separate login between website/wiki and the forum, but I believe that price is painless for the relatively few who would want to participate in both sides. I would coordinate with Dan on this, and give him full co-ownership of the environment to help bring a sense of credibility and cohesiveness amongst the environments. I have an IT business and extensive credentials which I can provide to Dan in case anyone is concerned about setting up a new home which might later disappear. Backups would be generated and provided to Dan and/or some other co-owner to ensure we don't lose the public resource in case I decide to take a permanent vacation under a bus.
Uh.... Thoughts? 
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Follow-up...
I'm aware of the wiki at AbstractSpoon, and the documentation, but the PBWorks CMS (IMO) doesn't "work".
The content hasn't been updated in a couple years
It's not widely referenced.
Is anyone here authorized to update except Dan?
There are a many kinds of documentation. One is like a book which walks a user through a product from start to end in a progressive manner to explore concepts. Another is more as a reference, focusing on each menu item, sub menus, and options as they are found in a meticulous exploration of the product.
At this time TDL doesn't have current documentation resources of either type. I think a new site should address both audiences: the "what is this product" group as well as the "how do I use this feature" group.
If the AbstractSpoon resources can be used for this, great. Let's try to get it up to date, remove some of the old comments and material, and draw people to that resource more regularly. If not, again, we need a new resource.
Thanks for your time.
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I'd be happy to help out if this goes ahead, I'll be keeping an eye on this.
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iamstarbuck wrote: Uh.... Thoughts?
I'd love for someone to pick up the baton with this issue because I'm already at the limit of what I can do with the time I have available to TDL, notwithstanding the fact that I allocate (lovingly) a lot of time to TDL.
iamstarbuck wrote: This software deserves a real site with real forum software categorized as: Newcomers, HowTos, Bugs, Feature Requests, Dan Musings, Extensions, Kudos, Examples of TDL Usage, Code Notes, Latest Release Notes, Planned Changes...
I totally agree. And part of my reluctance to leave CP is ego-driven: I like(d) having the most highly voted CP submission in the history of the world. However it seems like that's been removed from CP  .
So perhaps it's time to move on and create a new presence like you suggest. Perhaps I could spend some of the TDL donation money to get a new TDL front page  , although I doubt that I've enough to do that really.
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RemoteFile.cpp
if (!bFolder)
sLocalPath.IsEmpty();
should be sLocalPath.Empty();
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Well spotted. Does it cause a problem?
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Hi All
If you don't know it there's an interesting site called Give-Away-Of-The-Day[^] that does just as it says.
Today's give-away is TreeNotes[^].
I would welcome anyone installing it (temporarily) and giving me feedback.
My 2c is 'disappointing, but probably targeted at a completely different audience to ToDoList'
ps. Doe anyone think that this feature set[^] (by the same developer) sounds very familiar?
modified 1-Mar-12 18:20pm.
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Hi Dan,
.dan.g. wrote: there's an interesting site called Give-Away-Of-The-Day[^] that does just as it says.
I'm monitoring this site but not because I want to get software for free but because I'd like to be informed about what kind of software is considered interesting by others. It's once in a blue moon that they give away interesting software. And this opinion is supported by lots of other comments on their page.
TreeNotes is an exception. The same goes for http://www.mytreedb.com/index.html[^].
Both are definitely targeting at a different audience. They are both TreeNotes is meant for note taking only and not for tasklist management. <- Update: Sorry, TreeDBNotes has a task manager. I missed that or it wasn't there when I tested it.
It's different with Swift To-Do List since you can import the data from TreeNotes. Swift combines a taskmanager with the notetaking abilities that TreeNotes offers.
I tested Swift To-Do List (and a lot of others) months ago I can say this:
The producers are exaggerating a lot with "Best To-Do List Software for Windows".
Just a few thoughts: The GUI looks a little naive (look e.g. at the icons) to me.
The settings (preferences) do not offer much. The filter options do not offer much too and it's laborious to get them to work.
I know that I'm repeating myself but ToDoList beats the pants off MLO, Chandler, Swift, Treepad, Keepnote, Taskcoach, LeaderTask, PimOne, Jettask, EfficientPIM, ABIX etc. etc. etc.
I'm not saying that all these programs are not good but I'm saying ToDoList is better, although some of them offer options ToDoList doesn't have. If you want to compare with a "real" competitor you might want to have a look at EssentialPIM[^].
Cheers,
Jochen
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Thx Jochen.
Had a look at both MyTreeDb and EssentialPIM.
EssentialPIM (free) seems IMO to have spread itself a bit thin by trying to be a direct Outlook competitor. Its task management section looks quite simplistic (== weak).
And MyTreeDb (free) seems to have very limited task attributes.
TCP_JM wrote: although some of them offer options ToDoList doesn't have
I would appreciate more feedback on this.
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Hi Dan,
I never tested the free versions but the full versions (free trial for xyz days).
Nevertheless:
Your remark ["EssentialPIM (free) seems IMO to have spread itself a bit thin by trying to be a direct Outlook competitor. Its task management section looks quite simplistic (== weak)"] is absolutely correct IMO.
Their goal seems to be to present a 'Personal Information Mangager' that offers everthing: Calendar, To Do List, Notes manager, Contact list ... But they didn't do their "homework".
Two examples of many:
You can't move the cursor in the task tree from one item to another by using the arrow keys if the tree is collapsed. Elapsing and collapsing tasks can only be done by using the mouse.
Another problem is that it's not possible to complete a task and set the correct date.
You can complete a task by clicking in the check box and the completion date (and time) will show the very date and time you click in the checkbox. It's not possible to set a date like it is possible in ToDoList.
.dan.g. wrote: TCP_JM wrote: although some of them offer options ToDoList doesn't have
I would appreciate more feedback on this.
Sure.
The main options I was referring to are:
EssentialPIM (EP) offers an Outlook like calendar. The advantages of this are:
The user can have a view on a daily calendar (with hours), a weekly, monthly and yearly calendar.
EP offers something here I'd very much like to see in ToDoList, too: In EP you can put appointments in your calendar, like in Outlook. In addition to that (and that is a great idea IMO) the user can create a task and can decide that this very task is shown in the calendar (start date / end date). That way it is possible to block time for important tasks in your schedule.
Another good option is the "Today" view that shows appointments and tasks like Outlook does, too.
Cheers,
Jochen
P.S The difference between ToDoList and EP (regarding what is shown in the calendar) is that ToDoList shows all the tasks and EP shows only those tasks that you want to see (see above). ToDoList can not show appointments since the user can not create an appointment in the calendar (only if the user uses tasks as appointments (what I do.)
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TCP_JM wrote: EssentialPIM (EP) offers an Outlook like calendar. The advantages of this are:
I hear you. Once I've done the architectural work to improve the 2-way communication between TDL and 3rd-party UI extensions, this will be on the cards. Maybe 6.6.
TCP_JM wrote: ToDoList shows all the tasks and EP shows only those tasks that you want to see (see above)
TDL should (haven't tested it recently though) show just the filtered tasks in the Calendar, but I accept that this is not what you are talking about.
Perhaps it's nearly time to have task 'types': Tasks, Events, Appointments, Collections (aka Parent tasks with fewer attributes),...
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Hi Dan,
.dan.g. wrote: TCP_JM wrote: EssentialPIM (EP) offers an Outlook like calendar. The advantages of this are:
I hear you. Once I've done the architectural work to improve the 2-way communication between TDL and 3rd-party UI extensions, this will be on the cards. Maybe 6.6.
Many thanks in advance !
.dan.g. wrote: Perhaps it's nearly time to have task 'types': Tasks, Events, Appointments, Collections (aka Parent tasks with fewer attributes),...
I would like to raise this question: Are "Tasks, Events, Appointments, Collections" necessarily different 'types'?
Frankly, I do not think so!
A big disadvantage of some so-called 'Personal Information Managers' is that they differ between e.g. Tasks, Events, Appointments and Notes.
It was always a very big, outstanding and distinguishing mark that ToDoList doesn't differ.
"Tasklists" in ToDoList can be used for everything: for a tasklist, a collection of notes (code snippets, recipies, a book collection list with links to PDFs and epubs etc.). The only thing is - as you metioned - the user gives e.g. notes lesser attributes (a booklist does not require 'due date' etc.).
This is what makes ToDoList "the one and only", too, the flexible solution for so many different uses.
The same goes for the appointments, events and tasks.
To differ here could make ToDoList top-heavy and maybe in a negative way. It will definitely make it complicated. It seems that we will need new filters then (for events, appointments, tasks...).
I would like to suggest that ToDoList stays like it is and does not differ. The solution IMO would be to add some more "attributes"/options and additional views. An item should ramain a list item and can be identified by 'attributes'.
For example:
Let's assume that ToDoList gets an Outlook like calendar in v6.6:
Tasks shouldn't be shown in that calendar automatically. The user should decide whether he wants to see a task in the calendar or not. So ToDoList would need the additional option "show in calendar" [and if enabled the additional option 'end date' (in addition to 'start date'). If added 'Due date' and 'end date' should exclude each other] that makes it possible to show "items" in that calendar.
[the general view with tasks and calendar-items can be added.]
It is not important (regarding the type of the item) whether this item is a task or an event or an appointment.
To make sure that the user can easily identify whether it is a task or an appointment (in the calendar) it would be great to offer some sort of dropdown list where the user can choose (like in 'category') and that 'classification' can be shown in the calendar (symbol or text).
Cheers,
Jochen
modified 6-Mar-12 6:56am.
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TCP_JM wrote: I would like to raise this question: Are "Tasks, Events, Appointments, Collections" necessarily different 'types'?
Frankly, I do not think so!
I would like to disagree (though very softly and subtly). The difference comes in which fields must be populated.
For example.
Task
Title, Due date, Allocated To
Appointment
Title, Start Time (and date), End Time (and date - Due date can double up as End Time though), Allocated To, Meeting with, Location
Collection/parent tasks)
Probably just title (in fact, the way I use parent tasks I want to prevent due dates+allocated To in parent tasks)
Event
I have no idea how an event is different from a task/appointment
TCP_JM wrote: If added 'Due date' and 'end date' should exclude each other]
I cannot think of a use case where Due date and end date is needed (and different).
TCP_JM wrote: So ToDoList would need the additional option "show in calendar" [and if enabled the additional option 'end date' (in addition to 'start date').
Rather than this I would propose a calendar filter. Then (since User defined attributes is there - you can have the "show in calendar field", I can have a "only show child tasks",
My proposal would then be
1. Get user defined attributes (coming in 6.5)
2. Allow user defined attributes to have a type (e.g. date, dropdown, combobox, free text, file etc)
3. Allow the setting of compulsory fields per tasklist. This can be separately specified for parent tasks and for child tasks (and maybe even for completed tasks)
4. Allow for tasklist aggregation i.e. combine different tasklists with possibly different compulsory fields, into 1 (this may be coming sooner than you think - though there will be no two-way sync, courtesy of AHK).
Edit: in short I agree with you to a certain extent (that the artificial creation of categories will clutter TDL), though I have a slightly different view on what the solution might be. Would like to hear your (and Dan's) thoughts on this.
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capital H wrote: I would like to disagree (though very softly and subtly). The difference comes in which fields must be populated.
I agree. If trying to make TDL easier for 'lite' users, highlighting the relevant attribute fields for each type might be useful.
This could be achieved in 2 ways though as I see it. Firstly, as Dan describes, by defining new task types. Ideally each type could have default attributes defined (perhaps as described by you above). Perhaps these attributes could be user alterable? Secondly, you could ignore that functionality entirely and use a category to differentiate, keeping all fields. Or I guess thirdly you continue to use TDL as now.
I would prefer the first option, especially if the types could be formatted differently. It would be useful to easily see the difference between a task and appointment for instance.
My only concern is that I would probably want to put all my appointments into a separate tasklist to my tasks, as it will need different columns to be visible...
capital H wrote: Rather than this I would propose a calendar filter. Then (since User defined attributes is there - you can have the "show in calendar field", I can have a "only show child tasks",
I have thought different filters for different views will be necessary in future.
Currently this is not a problem. I filter in 'List view' (I only want to see the tasks i need to work on), but work without a filter in Tree view (where the structure of the overall plan is visible and where new tasks are added). Using F12 is fine for this.
If additional 'views' are created in future, such as Calender, Gantt view, mini view etc. Each may want a different filter, as you are probably looking at the data in different ways for different reasons.
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capital H wrote: The difference comes in which fields must be populated.
So we can agree. "Tasks, Events, Appointments, Collections, Notes" are all just items in a list. What makes them different are the different fields the user uses to characterise the item.
capital H wrote: I cannot think of a use case where Due date and end date is needed (and different).
The answer is easy.
A 'due date' regarding a task is the very moment you have to present the result of your work.
An 'end date' (and 'end time) would just be the end of a time period. An appointment starts e.g. at 3 p.m and has the 'end date' 5 p.m. This 'end date' here is not a 'due date', right?
Let's have a look at that calendar "I'm dreaming of":
An appointment has a 'start date' and an 'end date'.
A task can have a 'start date' and a 'due date', but if the task shows in the calendar it could have an 'end date', too. So 'start date' and 'end date' are just showing a specific time you want to work on a task. 'End date' can be weeks before 'due date' (in this regard it was wrong that I said that 'due date' and 'end date' should exclude each other. That led to a misunderstanding. Sorry).
Maybe there should be another field (in addition to the general 'start date'); a field that refers strictly to the beginning of a time period the user wants to work on a task, like 'end date' shows the end of that period. In a way 'start date' shows the time when the task "steps" into the user's life.
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.dan.g. wrote: TCP_JM wrote: EssentialPIM (EP) offers an Outlook like calendar. The advantages of this are:
I hear you. Once I've done the architectural work to improve the 2-way communication between TDL and 3rd-party UI extensions, this will be on the cards. Maybe 6.6.
I have thought about this in the past. For what it is worth, I see a calendar function as having 2 main parts.
Firstly as a means of showing appointments, events, reminders etc, a la Outlook. A filter combined with task type can easily deal with what to show on the calendar in this instance.
Secondly however, there is the day / week planner functionality for tasks. This is more complex and I am not sure how you would identify which tasks appear on the calendar and which don't. This can be further split into 2 scenarios.
- Scenario A. Week planning is deciding which tasks to do on which day. This filter is easily possible (e.g. I currently flag those task picked for this week in Listview). I am not sure how this should appear on a calendar, and I am not convinced the calendar is overly useful for this. I would probably need to change the way I use start and due dates, as I currently use them as indicative only.
- Scenario B. Day / time scheduling - planning and documenting which tasks are done when during the day. This involves potentially splitting a task over days, and may use multiple start/stop time information. This is complex and I do this manually for that reason.
In my ideal world, I would be able to drag a task onto todays calendar (from list view?, no special filter needed), then drag the start and end times to suit. I could start and stop the timer, and create another time block (later in the day for instance) - perhaps by dragging again.
I could go on, but I just wanted to understand what is being meant by a calendar in TDL - I assume the first option.
PS: If you evenually get into the calendar, you will need to implement the 'the nth day of the month' recurrence option... 
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.dan.g. wrote: ps. Doe anyone think that this feature set[^] (by the same developer) sounds very familiar?
Reading the feature set i thought TDL is described there. Had this developer had a look on TDL before!?
The UI looks a bit naive but also fresh, clean and easy to handle. The sync- and backup and the cloud-, web- and smartphone-access are also quite a good thing i have to admit. The Task Edit Menu look also good. You can attach as many objects of all kinds as you like.
It´s easy to shoot other apps down when you worked with the same Taskorganizer for years. For me changing is not an option. But if somebody is looking for the first time for such an app people may prefer Swift over TDL just for the UI. But can you really compare? I mean it´s 44,95 $.
Maybe there are some features in Swift to inspire from. Actually there is one feature i miss in most taskorganzizer:
The possibility to record voice for each task. Interface for this should be simple. Maybe an option to pause listening and record again(insert) at this point. And of course deleting the or part of the recording.
Thanks for reading
Steve
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Steve_1234 wrote: The sync- and backup and the cloud-, web- and
TDL will have support for ToodleDo and subsequent version will include GoogleDocs and any other 'cloud' services considered worthwhile.
Steve_1234 wrote: The possibility to record voice for each task
I'll look into it.
Steve_1234 wrote: You can attach as many objects of all kinds as you like.
I suspect that we'll have to support this too in TDL at some point. But considering you can drag'n'drop as many objects into the richtext comments field as you like, it kinda can already be done.
Steve_1234 wrote: But if somebody is looking for the first time for such an app people may prefer Swift over TDL just for the UI
This is a perennial problem of how to represent something complex as simple. And I welcome any feedback on this issue.
I might also have a look at the file-formats of some 'leading' task organizers and see if writing importers is a viable option.
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As said above, Treenotes is a notes program. I used to use Keynote, but moved to TDL as it covers the functionality. You may find this odd, but I run a separate copy of TDL with only Title and Comments visible, and Comments taking up most of the screen, no alternate line colouring etc..., otherwise I find TDL doesn't quite 'look right' for this function.
I also downloaded Swift To-do List. Somewhat interesting, and I agree with most of what was said above. Certainly is a simpler application, and is therefore more limited. There are a couple of features that I find interesting:
- The in-line editing of tasks - however I found the interface too sluggish and it would get annoying.
- Task type (size). I have used this concept before and found it useful in planning my schedule.
- The ability to do a one click add time and date to the comments pane is nice.
- Creation of task using a tabbed dialog. Would probably be useful in some cases, especially beginners.
I also got a little excited when I saw 'flags' (plural). But this is non-editable and reflects the settings on the task.
I have been thinking a second flag type would be really useful in TDL (for me). I would find it useful to flag 'tasks to do this week' and also 'tasks to do this week'. I find using the 'Status' attribute is enough of a pain not use it - not as visual and can't change it in-line.
Is this a possible outcome of the updates you are currently doing Dan, or will the user created attributes be limited to text fields only?
Actually, while we are talking about alternative software, I used to use TimeTo. Not sure if you have ever looked at this Dan, but it is very different to TDL. It has some very interesting and useful ideas (such as the task size, indicated by a sized dot, and a simple vs advance mode). It is much more of a day to day scheduling program (shows appointments, tasks are loaded into the calendar and the timer is always on). I found it does get a bit oppressive, as it is always telling you what the most important tasks is right now.
I think eventually an improved calendar would be very useful for TDL, but for now I use Outlook for my meetings / appointments, and a hard-copy diary for my hour to hour planning on the day (I am not always at the computer). This works well enough for my needs.
zajchap
modified 5-Mar-12 6:16am.
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