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Jeremy Falcon22-Jun-23 12:02

22-Jun-23 12:02

The news story said lost at sea in the headline. But, at 159 atmospheres, they're dead. Frown | :(

Jeremy Falcon

OriginalGriff22-Jun-23 19:18

OriginalGriff

22-Jun-23 19:18

6000 psi down there. They wouldn't have had time to notice there was a problem - death would have been instantaneous. One moment 5 humans, the next a lamination on the carbon fibre.
RIP, and my thoughts are with the families (who definitely can afford to sue) ... Rose | [Rose]

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Jeremy Falcon23-Jun-23 5:12

23-Jun-23 5:12

OriginalGriff wrote:
death would have been instantaneous

Totally agree. Check my posts a few threads down and you'll see I said the same exact thing. I'm coming from a family of scuba divers, so you learn quickly the pressure would've killed them a lot sooner than running out of air.

Jeremy Falcon

modified 23-Jun-23 10:32am.

Daniel Pfeffer24-Jun-23 9:36

Daniel Pfeffer

24-Jun-23 9:36

OriginalGriff wrote:
my thoughts are with the families (who definitely can afford to sue)

Apparently there are two separate companies. OceanGate owns the submersibles, and OceanGate expeditions charters them and uses them for their expeditions. Leaving aside the waivers the passengers signed, it is likely that there are no assets for the families to collect from.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

OriginalGriff24-Jun-23 10:37

OriginalGriff

24-Jun-23 10:37

When did that ever stop lawyers trying? Laugh | :laugh:

Nelek22-Jun-23 12:33

Nelek

22-Jun-23 12:33

obermd wrote:
I have no sympathy for the fifth passenger as he was the CEO of the company and, based on reports, was warned multiple times by different people that this submersible wasn't safe.

He should have done the inaugural "trip" alone... Elephant | [mastadon]

ing moron

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Richard Andrew x6422-Jun-23 13:12

Richard Andrew x64

22-Jun-23 13:12

It was not the inaugural trip. That vessel had made dozens of trips before.

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

Amarnath S22-Jun-23 15:35

Amarnath S

22-Jun-23 15:35

Some experts believe that multiple trips is the reason. So many cycles of load, that it was a fatigue failure, is what they feel. The carbon fibre structure may not have been designed/tested for this much fatigue load.

Gerry Schmitz22-Jun-23 17:00

Gerry Schmitz

22-Jun-23 17:00

Yep. If the chance of a failure was 5%; they had already done some 20 dives. One more made 5%.

And, they used carbon fibre; which has a history. The "old" guys say to use steel or titanium. The CEO only wanted to "listen" to 20-some year olds (the same way companies are always looking for "intermediate" programmers).

"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I

jschell23-Jun-23 12:06

jschell

23-Jun-23 12:06

Gerry Schmitz wrote:
the same way companies are always looking for "intermediate" programmers).

And because they claim that they can do it in 5 days rather than 5 months.

Richard Andrew x6422-Jun-23 13:13

Richard Andrew x64

22-Jun-23 13:13

The Titanic claims five more lives. Rose | [Rose]

Unbelievable.

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

pkfox22-Jun-23 22:58

22-Jun-23 22:58

Bad engineering and stupidity claims 5 lives

In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

pkfox22-Jun-23 23:04

22-Jun-23 23:04

I think the CEO was the pilot

In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

Daniel Pfeffer22-Jun-23 23:53

Daniel Pfeffer

22-Jun-23 23:53

He was. Presumably he wanted to save a little more money. At least the fool was hoist on his own petard.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

pkfox23-Jun-23 0:03

23-Jun-23 0:03

Tha Titanic is a graveyard LEAVE IT ALONE !

In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

Daniel Pfeffer23-Jun-23 0:24

Daniel Pfeffer

23-Jun-23 0:24

In this I disagree. People visit graveyards all the time - from the interments in Westminster Abbey to view the graves of the important to a small village graveyard to view the graves of their ancestors. I don't see why the Titanic should be exempt merely because reaching it is dangerous and requires more money than any of us is likely to spend.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

pkfox23-Jun-23 1:02

23-Jun-23 1:02

It's hardly a stroll down the local graveyard is it, millions of $ spent on trying to find the thing, and built by a man that refused to listen ( and dismissed ) to experienced people - it was an avoidable disaster.

In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

Amarnath S23-Jun-23 2:31

Amarnath S

23-Jun-23 2:31

Somewhat disagree.

In a graveyard, we can actually pinpoint to the grave to visit and pay homage. In case of Titanic, cannot pinpoint to the exact grave of the person; rather the whole thing is a graveyard.

pkfox23-Jun-23 4:33

23-Jun-23 4:33

Thank you

In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

Jeremy Falcon23-Jun-23 5:27

23-Jun-23 5:27

If that's the case, then you'd be against any archelogy. We cannot pinpoint any exact grave, nor do we pay homage particularly, when exploring the past. Without that, we'd not know of dinosaurs, the history of the Earth, etc.

Jeremy Falcon

Amarnath S23-Jun-23 18:30

Amarnath S

23-Jun-23 18:30

What I meant, in the overall sense, was:

Comparing adventure and safety, safety should not be given second preference, especially when unsuspecting customers are involved. For example, when I was a student of Engineering about 30 years ago, they used to hold conferences on estimating the residual life of an aircraft, and the structural testing, non-destructive evaluation needed for this estimate, and hence part-replacements, repair schedules, etc. An aircraft undergoes a load spectrum from take-off to landing, and each such cycle does affect the structural integrity of the aircraft, for which periodic checks are needed. Here again, the Titan vehicle had made about 20 trips to the Titanic, and we're not sure of the structural evaluation done after each such trip. When a person goes blindly after innovation, and gives a cursory preference to safety, testing, residual life, etc. then it's a problem, and often ends in such catastrophes. I would call it foolish innovation.

Jeremy Falcon23-Jun-23 5:29

23-Jun-23 5:29

100%. I'm from a family of scuba divers and (in theory) I'd love to dive the Titanic shipwreck. I've dove other shipwrecks that were mainly tourist traps (sunk on purpose at the end of the ship's life) and quite frankly... nothing gives you a healthy respect for the sea like doing a shipwreck dive.

Jeremy Falcon