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But you didn't answer, who is that single payer?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I suggest you look up Medicare.
In simple terms, I would like a single payer of all medical claims - a giant all-encompassing Medicare-like entity. It would be paid for by corporate taxes, or, by the self employed (like myself) by taxation. (INCLUDING so-called "unearned income").
Note that by taxing all of the money, the tax percentage can be reduced.
Also, a single-payer would be able to encourage preventive medicine to reduce major medical expenses (which private companies are only grudgingly coming to understand).
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I fully understand what Medicare is. But as you finally pointed out, by "single payer" you do not mean that people will not have to pay for it. We all pay for Obamacare. Taxes go up. There is no way taxes would go down. Someone has to pay for it.
Quote: a single-payer would be able to encourage preventive medicine to reduce major medical expenses
All that does is cause a monopoly. There are already agreements between big pharma and HMOs that give perks to doctors if they prescribe above a certain threshold of their product. This would make it even worse.
The constitution in no way supports forcing Americans to get health care. It's a terrible loss of freedom.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote: I fully understand what Medicare is. But as you finally pointed out, by "single
payer" you do not mean that people will not have to pay for it. We all pay for
Obamacare. Taxes go up. There is no way taxes would go down. Someone has to pay
for it.
Nonsense.
You state that in such a way to suggest that the tax payer is not already paying for the current system.
ryanb31 wrote: All that does is cause a monopoly. There are already agreements between big
pharma and HMOs that give perks to doctors if they prescribe above a certain
threshold of their product. This would make it even worse.
Utter nonsense. Medicare doesn't have policies in place to produce profit. Neither would the "monopoly" that you are suggesting.
ryanb31 wrote: The constitution in no way supports forcing Americans to get health care. It's a
terrible loss of freedom.
The Supreme Court disagrees with you. And the Supreme Court, not you, is the final arbitrator of what the constitution means.
That said the constitution also allows for changes to it. To which, if you dislike the current situation, you can lobby to have it changed. So get working on it.
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Quote: You state that in such a way to suggest that the tax payer is not already paying for the current system.
No, don't add to what I said. Since some people currently receive free health care those that do pay, are paying for it. The current system is lousy, but Obamacare is much worse.
Quote: The Supreme Court disagrees with you.
Half of the supreme court.
Quote: And the Supreme Court, not you, is the final arbitrator of what the constitution means.
Correct. However, the Constitution also gives me the right to disagree and say they are wrong.
Do you think the Constitution gives the government the right to force health care? If so why? If not, what is your point to all of this?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote: Half of the supreme court.
Irrelevant. That statement ignores the foundation of the US, which includes that very process, as well as suggesting that many other less than unanimous decisions are some how suspect.
ryanb31 wrote: If not, what is your point to all of this?
My point is that the current system is broken and will continue to get worse. So the current system will NOT work.
So another solution is needed.
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Quote: Irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant. You were using the fact that the Supreme Court voted in favor of Obama-scare as if I was the only one against it. Clearly, not the only one.
Quote: So another solution is needed.
Agreed 100%. I think everyone agrees to that. However, Obama-scare is going to make it much, much worse. And look at the polls, the nation is split in half just like the supreme court. Only time will tell.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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W∴ Balboos wrote: With a US citizen going into bankruptcy ca. every 6 minutes due to medical expenses
If I remember rightly, that's a spurious statistic. Medical related bankruptcies included all bankruptcies where people owed money on medical costs. If my finances are going down the tube, and I'm losing my house, paying those rich doctors comes a long way down the list compared to (e.g.) paying for food.
On the flip side, I did know people who had to leave retirement, and go work in the gulf for a while so they didn't go bankrupt due to cancer costs, so I'm sure *some* people have proplems. Just not "one every 6 minutes"...
I hope that was more of a pedantic than political argument. Views on the rightness or wrongness of this policy are Soapbox material, IMHO.
Iain.
I am one of "those foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs". Yay me!
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Why should I - as a working contributing member of society - be made to pay for a deadbeat's medical bills? Especially a deadbeat who continues pumping welfare babies out at an alarming rate, and that refuses to get a job because the government is paying their way with my tax money.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Why should I - as a working contributing member of society - be made to pay for
a deadbeat's medical bills?
No idea. But given that you already are and have been for all of your life, what makes it any different now?
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Especially a deadbeat who continues pumping welfare babies out at an alarming
rate, and that refuses to get a job because the government is paying their way
with my tax money.
There are of course statistics that demonstrate that that although there are some that misuse the system in that way the vast majority of dependents on government aid don't fit that description. Neither now nor in the past.
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Quote: No idea. But given that you already are and have been for all of your life, what makes it any different now?
Yes, the current system is terrible. That is why I don't have health insurance. However, Obamacare will make it worse. Currently, those who pay are subsidizing the "deadbeat's medical bills" but under Obamacare those who pay will be subsidizing everyone's bills. That's quite a difference.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote: Obamacare will make it worse.
Opinion.
ryanb31 wrote: However, <layer>Obamacare will make it worse. <layer>Currently, those who pay are subsidizing the "deadbeat's medical bills" but under Obamacare those who pay will be subsidizing everyone's bills. That's quite a difference.
Utter nonsense.
Now, medical facilities attempt to collect medical bills for those that are uninsured and often at a substantial markup compared to what the insured paid. Those that remain unpaid have the following characteristics.
- The person does NOT have the ability to pay.
- The unpaid bills are ALREADY subsidized by everyone else.
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But if it is free healthcare, everyone is subsidizing everyone.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote: But if it is free healthcare, everyone is subsidizing everyone.
First so what?
Second, the current system is broken for the vast majority. And getting worse.
Third, "everyone" are already subsidizing many people.
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Quote: Second, the current system is broken for the vast majority. And getting worse.
Agreed. Where we disagree is you think Obama-scare is going to improve things. I think it will make it much worse. I am not referring to the health care system only. It will make the healthcare worse and it will hurt the economy which has a huge domino effect across all things.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote: Agreed. Where we disagree is you think Obama-scare is going to improve things. I think it will make it much worse. I am not referring to the health care system only. It will make the healthcare worse and it will hurt the economy which has a huge domino effect across all things.
It might. But it has the option of being changed.
And no one has suggested any other solution.
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Quote: And no one has suggested any other solution.
Sort of. One solution is to leave it alone as Obama's plan will make it worse.
I don't have health insurance so I don't care about that aspect, what I do care about is how it will increase taxes and then domino from there.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote: One solution is to leave it alone as Obama's plan will make it worse.
As I already said...
The current solution is broken. There is no way to fix the current solution and all of the evidence suggests it will only get worse.
ryanb31 wrote: what I do care about is how it will increase taxes and then domino from there.
The current system is broken. The fact that congress refuses to fix it, in some way, doesn't mean that refusing to increase taxes in the future and/or continuing to bury congresses head in the sand is going to lead to a solution.
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I agree. Worst health care reform ever. This is going to cost the poor and the country big time. Think we will see health care costs to the country skyrocket. Of course the IRS will love the extra money that people have to pay because they cannot afford the cost of insurance. The poor are going to suffer big time.
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Bullshit; it's a blow to freedom and my pursuit of happiness.
The health insurance industry has ruined the health care industry; we need less of it, not more.
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Well said.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: bullsh*t; it's a blow to freedom and my pursuit of happiness.
Glittering generalities that, in practical terms, mean nothing beyond "I got mine, everyone else can go to hell" - a popular frame of mine, of late.
PIEBALDconsult wrote: The health insurance industry has ruined the health care industry; we need less of it, not more.
OK - and when your car is smashed by someone without insurance and your're laid in a hospital - who pays for the damage? Who pays the bills? No insurance and you'd be left with nothing as you pay off the obscenely expensive medical bill by the elitist MD community who thing they're entitled to whatever they can get extort from people in their time of need.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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dude, you just convicted yourself of your own crime.
The affordable care act does NOT control doctor costs, does NOT control lawsuits. All it does is arbitrarily set prices which in turn will reduce supply.
As the other gentleman said, I declare bull$hit.
This is nothing more than a pipe dream. Note that the issue of the ruling had to do with whether or not the "penalty fee" was a tax. The court held that, even though Obama lied through his teeth when forcefeeding this pig calling it not a tax, by law, it was a tax, and on that merit, they were done.
That doesn't make this any better.
I'm still waiting for you to answer who the single payer is. Note that all elected officials will still have their own special medical plan, a hell of a lot better than anything we've got.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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The affordable health care act, sadly, was watered down from where it should be - but it's the first step in the right direction since Medicare/Medicaid.
It's a law - period.
The law includes a mandate that the Supreme Court calls a tax. The mandate was the basis for the challenge.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Ahem, we agree on that. It's a law, turd, shiny brown object that will be polished for eternity.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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