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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: 6 - I needed a notepad++ Linux equivalent. No chance!
Sublime Text 2
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
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You're right and no less so for being late to the party. I've said what I have to say about 'desktop' Linux so I won't repeat it but you're more than welcome to. 
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage."
Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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Linux is good because you can spend infinite time tinkering with it and avoid doing your job.
When confronted about it, you can claim you had to download a huge tree of dependencies, half of which you had to find and install manually, and then you had to write a patch for GCC to be able to compile some things.
And you wouldn't even be lying.
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I tend to agree . Ubuntu is not suitable for my mother . Also the number of devs I see using macs tends to make me assume that there is a reason they dont use UBUNTU as their OS. I am using it right now , and I find it as reliable as windows 95 . Now I daresay that there is a config I can find that will help , and as a technical guy I enjoy that challenge , but mass market ? Not yet . BUT its getting there . And for server OS I think Linux is perfect , no worrying about licensing issues , easy command line installs , superb online community help with honest opinion .
Regards
Torrance
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My mum is 87. She uses Ubuntu 12.04. She finds the interface far easier to use than microcrap, and she doesn't miss the useless, confusing popups every time she tries to do things, or waiting for all the s**t to finish hijacking the network connection when she switches on, or the aggressive marketing banners of 'free' software, or the rubbish about not switching off because of updates when she wants to finish and go and make a cup of tea, or the s**t you have to pay for to protect the system from drive-by's and viruses...
I mean really? You pay good money for this experience?
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Are you sure this was an Ubuntu problem, rather than because of ns-3? I haven't worked on Linux for a while, but I always found it one of the easiest systems to install and configure, on a range of hardware.
Use the best guess
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Yes. The default installation CD lacks some really useful and popular libraries.
Behzad
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That's the difference between Linux and Windows. Linux is a basic operating system, and you are free to add the additional applications you want.
Use the best guess
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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: Because it has been prepared from a developer's perspective not an ordinary user who just wants to set up his environment and start to work.
I agree 100%. While for a lot of things I can simply use some app, any of the nice personalization things that I am used to in Windows simply isn't there. I can't imagine trying to create a workable dev environment in it - even switch between applications with alt-tab is a klunky "WTF is it trying to do" experience. And come on, having to open a terminal window and "sudo" this, "sudo" that, is elephanting archaic.
Marc
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Your issues with Linux seem to stem from the fact that you believe the world revolves around what you want and need rather than what the average user might need. They're not going to pre-install EVERY interpreter known to man just because YOU might use it. Flash doesn't come installed because once again, it's a proprietary tool, and they haven't quite been playing nice with Linux for a bit... but one could argue Adobe has been upsetting more people than playing nice with them.
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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: Soon after logging, the problems, started to appear.
1 - I needed to install
python
2 - I needed to install TCL.
3 - I needed to install g++ ( for
compiling ns-3 )
4- JAVA? No problem! In Win7 also you need to install
it.
5- Adobe flash? I just installed it but after opening some tabs, Firefox
started to freeze and in a rare time in Linux history (  ) desktop vanished
and after some HDD LED work, it logged out and showed me the login dialog!
And you get those direct with windows? Do you mean an OEM pre-installed bloatware PC you just plug in and go? Even those I've never seen with such a developer-specific set of all interpreters possible arrangement.
Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: 6 - I needed a notepad++ Linux equivalent. No chance!
And this is a "standard" Windows program available direct from the install DVD? Or did you inadvertently add the ++ to the end?
If you don't like sublime, then try Geany - it's built using the same Scintilla libraries as Notepad++ is. Some even say it's better than N++.
Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: 9 - Foxit Reader?
Uhmmm ... now let me see here ... http://www.foxitsoftware.com/downloads/
Yep, as I thought, Foxit has a "Desktop Linux" version in that dropdown!
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Quote: Yep, as I thought, Foxit has a "Desktop Linux" version in that dropdown!
Yes, it has download link, but there is nothing inside that combo for download. To be honest, i searched the web and found it on a file sharing service, but the main purpose of using Foxit ( tabbed PDF viewing ) was not available. Am i missing something? I don't know, So please let me know if there is such an application.
After all, my whole point is, in Windows or Mac you do not need to know command line tools and options or need to install library X in order to get your job done. Almost everything is ready. For all above applications, all you need is just some clicks ( Next -> Next -> Finish ). I needed ns-3 for an academic purpose and i had no time learning TCL, python, etc.
Behzad
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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: After all, my whole point is, in Windows or Mac you do not need to know command line tools and options or need to install library X in order to get your job done.
That I do not agree with. Nearly all apps you can install through the application managers. And if you do so you'll never need to use any CLI as they'd automatically also download needed libs if those haven't already been installed.
In Windows, such does not happen. If the app didn't include the lib inside of its install EXE/MSI file that lib would not be automatically installed. Rather you might find that an error box is displayed stating you need some lib from somewhere you need to download manually and install before you can install this. Sometimes (if the programmer making the MSI) was thinking about the user, he'd add a link to the download in such case. I do agree that in most cases an MSI would include all its needed libs, but that is wasted space in nearly all instances - just think how many games include the entire DirectX libs in their CD/DVD/download? You only need install it once don't you? Not every single time a new app wants to use it?
That's why I like the Linux method better. The app is just the app itself. No ancillaries and dependencies. The CLI (and the GUI managers) read the app's dependencies, checking if those are already installed, and then include those which aren't for download when you install the app. IMO this makes for the least amount of wasted install bandwidth.
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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: So please let me know if there is such an application.
You could try qpdfview[^]. A little new, but what I've heard sounds positive.
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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote: You know, i think the whole philosophy behind current Linux development is
wrong!
why?
Because it has been prepared from a developer's perspective
not an ordinary user who just wants to set up his environment and start to
work.
Here I'm with you half-way. Most Linuxes are not designed (or even intended) for the average user. But Ubuntu is definately one of those whose philosophy leans more to the: "User is dumb and should be lead by the hand" idea than the CLI-centric distros.
In my experience Ubuntu & Fedora is nearly equal to Windows' "ease of use" for a lay-user. But "when things go wrong" it's actually surpassing the "registry hacks you need to invoke with a cauldron boiling some efluence" to try and "fix" windows without an entire system reformat.
And actually if you download some program to install on Windows, you have either a 5GB file to get or you need to download DotNet 4.5 (or WTF else). So 61MB scares you does it? For libraries which would probably be used by some of the other progs you're installing? Really? You must LOVE updating/upgrading your DotNet packages then!
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1-5 are the same in windows
6 - Gedit ( and Pimp my Gedit[^]
7- Top is good enough for me
8 - Pidgin
If you would like a pre-setup system then you can either save an image or write scripts. It's not that big of a deal.
If it moves, compile it
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Actually I agree with the OP with certain things.
I am a Java dev, and think that:
Ubuntu is not that user-friendly as some Linux users want it to be.
Average user does not need to know how to sudo things: Instead, if "he" wanted to install something, a tool similar to Ubuntu Software Center should be used. Something user-friendly, without typing archaic things, with nice graphics and aesthetics.
Install procedure: Already said. In Windows if you need to install something regular, you download the "installer", next next finish. In Ubuntu, it is much more complicated. (compiling things? really?)
There are some customization issues also: That ugly bar (not talking about Kubuntu here) should be replaced, or replaceable if the user doesn't what it. The Ubuntu's "Control Panel" should be more user-friendly.
There should be something equivalent to "Task Manager". I mean, should I open a f****** terminal and execute two or three commands to kill something that has crashed? Which by the way happens more often than expected (unstable set of applications, not entirely Ubuntu developers fault).
Nautilus has some issues, not being capable of renaming files when doing two clicks, among others.
Not supporting NTFS file system as a possible partition for the installation of the OS is something a bit far ahead from what the average user think about, that is just wrong.
Well, now that I discharged myself, I feel a lot better. 
I love how Ubuntu is easier to set initially, with the drivers automatically installed (most of the time) rather than in W7 putting the fu**** disk for each device.
asdsda
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I'm just saying, there's a list like that for ms and apple as well. From what I understood the OP wasn't just listing things that were flawed in Ubuntu as a rant, it was compared to the windows station.
If it moves, compile it
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What you've just said, is one of the most idiotic things i've ever heard...
You don't know what you are talking about.
1. Python, TCL, and g++ are developers tools, where is the "user point of view" there?
2. A tabbed pdf viewer? Most users will be happy with just adobe reader, that the only thing they know, btw.
I don't like ubuntu either, so don't think i'm attacking your opinion, i'm just attacking your arguments.
Saludos!!
____ichr@mm
:wq
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Quote: 1. Python, TCL, and g++ are developers tools, where is the "user point of view" there?
Yeah, exactly, why i should download some developers tools in order to run an application?
You have just highlighted what i'am trying to say.
Behzad
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Run? I thought you were compiling something...
Saludos!!
____ichr@mm
:wq
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For using ns-3 you have to download source code an compile it. for compile you needd g++ and python.
for visual result, you need mercurial and qt to be installed. After downloading mercurial and qt4, there is a commnad line instruction to make the visualization application.For running and displaying result in visualizer app. you have to use a command for runnnig it. Actually it is WAF script that compiles a ns-3 ource code ( in C++ ) and then executes it.
You see how difficult it is for runnnig an application and check the results? 
Behzad
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Is this^ the ns3 package you are looking for?
And I still think an average user doesn't even know what in the hell is ns3.
Saludos!!
____ichr@mm
:wq
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I guess it all depends on the needs of the user and how the OS supplies their needs. If you still dependent on Windows apps and workflow to work, then you will need it and what comes with it. As a programmer I have been able to replace large amounts of my workflow with Linux, and I still depend on Win for other needs. If you are used to using Visual Studio, you are not going to be happy with Linux. I do not develop native Windows apps - so that is why my workflow is different. I have turned on many people who use their PC's for consumption only, onto Linux Mint or Ubuntu and they are very happy. Not everyone is a programmer. They can not mess it up very easy, especially if they have no use for the command line. I get less help calls, than I do with torched Win installs from the people I know. Every one is different as are their needs.
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