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AnswerRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Dave Kreskowiak7-Oct-22 13:53
mveDave Kreskowiak7-Oct-22 13:53 
AnswerRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz11-Nov-22 7:49
mveGerry Schmitz11-Nov-22 7:49 
AnswerRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Eddy Vluggen11-Nov-22 14:34
professionalEddy Vluggen11-Nov-22 14:34 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
trønderen12-Nov-22 8:44
trønderen12-Nov-22 8:44 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz12-Nov-22 9:58
mveGerry Schmitz12-Nov-22 9:58 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Eddy Vluggen12-Nov-22 11:56
professionalEddy Vluggen12-Nov-22 11:56 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz13-Nov-22 11:21
mveGerry Schmitz13-Nov-22 11:21 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
trønderen13-Nov-22 14:50
trønderen13-Nov-22 14:50 
Gerry Schmitz wrote:
Some languages do not have words for concepts that exist in other languages
That is certainly not limited to programming languages! It is a general problem for any translator of natural languages.

From an end user point of view, you can expect the user to have the required terms in his language. If English (i.e. the programming language) lacks the ability to express the problem concepts, then that is a problem belonging to the programming language, not to the problem solution as experienced by the customer / end user. You simply cannot go to a custormer and say: Sorry, mate, your suggested solution is perfectly fine, but we cannot use it, because the English language doesn't have words for those concepts! We have to solve the problem in a different way!

When programming in a high level language, you will almost always make use of concepts that do not exist in machine code. Even a 'high level machine code', such as .net CIL, lacks a lot of higher concepts. Yet you can express a problem solution that can be handled in CIL. You can even express problem solutions in lots of different languages, and they can all be handled by CIL!

Or moving yet another level up: With the GNU Compiler Collection, each source language - which on the surface may be quite different from other source languages - are parsed down to a parse tree, a format common to all languages.

And then: I never was considering any "universal language interpreter". You need not lump everything from lisp to Algol68 to APL to Erlang into one single structure to get away from programming being forced to be done in English. Different languages have different uses; that should be maintained. It is sufficient that the standard representation of a language such as C# used abstract tokens: Rather than 'w', 'h', 'i', 'l', 'e' in a 7-bit-ASCII-file (you still see that a lot of places!), the representation is [while loop], which can be displayed in various languages. A variable reference is not coded as 't', 'o', 't', 'a', 'l', '_', 's', 'u', 'm', but as [variable 277], which may be assigned the external identifier 'total_sum' for English, and 'totalbeløp' for Norwegian presentation.

I frequently get the feeling that we programmers actively want our code to be unintelligible for the customer (and for that sake, for other programmers of a different clan), so that we maintain full control over it. We do not ask the customer for his opinion about how the problem can be solved; at most we present some top-level box diagrams of how we will solve the problem. We most certainly don't want to discuss algorithms and code structures with the customer and future users!

I think we ought to. I think learning how the customer approaches the problem will improve our code significantly. It could improve the user interface tremendously! Then the customer and end user must understand the solution. It is far from enough that we, the programmers, understand it!

You can use e.g. ER for modelling the user's data (it is so well suited for communicating with end users that it is a pity it has essentially been totally abandoned today). You can describe your solution methods in pseudocode based on the customer / end user's native language. The problem is that most programmers either refuse to do so, calling it doing the work twice (i.e. pseudocoding and programming), or it is just sort of an act of courtesy: When the customer meeting is over, all the pseudocode is thrown away and the programmers do it how they see it fit, not the way the customer and pseudocode indicated.

To me, communicating with the customer / end user is equally or more important than communicating with workmates. And fact is that even when I discuss program code with some other Norwegian workmate, we speak in Norwegian. Usually, we will even use Norwegian words for coding terms such as 'metode', 'variabel', 'løkke' and 'unntak' (exception). If we could write down what we say, it could even be possible to discuss the code with a customer who is not fluent in English!
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
jschell14-Nov-22 7:06
jschell14-Nov-22 7:06 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
trønderen14-Nov-22 10:57
trønderen14-Nov-22 10:57 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
jschell28-Nov-22 11:17
jschell28-Nov-22 11:17 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz15-Nov-22 8:48
mveGerry Schmitz15-Nov-22 8:48 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
jschell28-Nov-22 11:20
jschell28-Nov-22 11:20 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz28-Nov-22 17:59
mveGerry Schmitz28-Nov-22 17:59 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
jschell29-Nov-22 7:12
jschell29-Nov-22 7:12 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz29-Nov-22 8:12
mveGerry Schmitz29-Nov-22 8:12 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
jschell30-Nov-22 7:42
jschell30-Nov-22 7:42 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Eddy Vluggen12-Nov-22 11:53
professionalEddy Vluggen12-Nov-22 11:53 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
trønderen13-Nov-22 14:56
trønderen13-Nov-22 14:56 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz15-Nov-22 9:03
mveGerry Schmitz15-Nov-22 9:03 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Eddy Vluggen12-Nov-22 12:04
professionalEddy Vluggen12-Nov-22 12:04 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
trønderen13-Nov-22 15:03
trønderen13-Nov-22 15:03 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Gerry Schmitz15-Nov-22 9:09
mveGerry Schmitz15-Nov-22 9:09 
JokeRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
Richard Deeming14-Nov-22 23:40
mveRichard Deeming14-Nov-22 23:40 
GeneralRe: Aide pour un programme langage c Pin
jschell14-Nov-22 6:46
jschell14-Nov-22 6:46 

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